Tuesday, August 28, 2007

Jujitsu In Action

I'm trying this on a different video display, so we'll see how it works. Here is some Brazilian Jujitsu in action. The security guard at the Denver Greyhound station gets some guy on the run and chokes him out.
Two things about this:
1. The guy uses very effective techniques for the situation, he submits the guy and his back-up handcuffs him. Perfect use for this type of jujitsu.
2. it appears to me that the suspect actually goes out, unconscious. There are some serious liability issues here, if that's what happened. The only revival technique he attempts is slapping him on the back. There have been many cases where cops have done this to people, some of who never revived. I'm curious what others have to say.
--All in all, a skillful demonstration of Brazilian Jujitsu...

UPDATE: See Bob's post at Striking Thoughts, He has more detailed info on the Blood Choke.
--I still think a company may be open to liability issues anytime someone is Knocked out, even if it does less harm than beating the crap out of them...

UPDATE #2: Here's what Rick from "Kicks Boxes" had to say:
"I saw the video. It looks like the security guard put the choke on pretty deep.

To be honest, I've never had to revive someone from a choke. (In our class we're not to proud to "tap out" long before it goes that far.)

However, my guess is that the usual Energetic Revival wouldn't work very well in bringing someone back from a blood choke.

The "knockout" of a blood choke comes from the physically stopping bloodflow to the brain, while an Energetic Knockout comes from disrupting a person's chi energy.

I believe the best method for resuscitation from a choke can be found in Wally Jay's Small Circle JuJitsu book. On page 54 he demonstrates sitting an unconcious victim up with your knee between his/her shoulderblades and then pulling up from beneath the breast as you push forward with your knee. You then push back down as you straighten your leg.

I believe that this would help to restore circulation.

However, I think the security guard is in a rough spot here. If he starts doing an elaborate revival, he's likely to attract even more attention to the fact that the guy was "out." (I'm not sure that his use of force was warranted in this situation and I imagine that it wouldn't be in his best interest to make the knockout look any more obvious .)

He was probably just anxious to get that guy (semi-concious or not) away from the crowd.

Thanks for asking.



(D.R.): I learned the same "knee in the back, lifting to expand the chest" revival from Leon Jay, but that was more for when breathing had actually stopped. I'm not sure about the "Blood Choke" revival.


Hand2Hand said...

I'm no black belt in Jujitsu and I'm not a lawyer, but I do know two things.

1. Cops are generally prohibitted from using choke holds because of the liability risks.

2. When I was taking Judo and Jujitsu, I knew had several sheriff's deputies and jail guards in my class. They told me they use choke holds because you can take someone out without killing him and without leaving fractures or visible marks that can be used against you in court.

Unless it's been caught on video, the situation becomes the-suspect's-word-against-the-cop. In court or in internal affairs, the cop will win just about every time.

Steve said...

I'll have to wait until later to check out the video. I can't view embedded active content from work.

We have several cops who train at my school. I'll have to ask them about chokes while on the job.

I've learned from personal experience that loss of consciousness due to blood restriction along the carotid arteries is about as safe as anything else. This type of choke comprises the majority of techniques we learn, will usually put someone to sleep within 10 seconds if done correctly, and the person wakes up within 10 seconds afterward.

Air chokes are much more dangerous and damage to the esophagus, adam's apple or throat is a distinct possibility.

Someone goes to sleep probably once every few months at class. It happens, usually to someone who doesn't realize the danger they're in. They can still breathe, so they don't realize that there's no oxygen going to their head.

Scott said...

Looked like a tackle to me. Then the guy gave up. The choke hold may not have been necessary at all.
Did he like steal a purse or something? What a dumb idea. I wish we saw more of this kind of crime, so people would realize that most criminals are just dumb as door-nails.

Bob Patterson said...

When I was with the department of corrections they taught the lateral vascular neck restraint. This was also taught to Nebraska police. It's a side blood choke. You can do it at different levels ranging from pain compliance to a knock-out.

See here:


Page bottom has a few videos of it. Much safer than an air choke.


Sa Bum Nim Pieschala said...

I agree Scott.
The guy didn't fight back, also the choke wasn't necessary and rather tacky in my opinion.

Once the guy was on his hands and knees it would have been better to grab an arm and get him on his stomach. Then he could be cuffed. Didn't they train him this way?

When I used to train the police rarely did we spend much time we spend time on chokes. Unless it was escaping from them.

Cops seem to want to control arms more. They also want to know some non bruising pressure points (no idea why :) ).

This rent-a-cop is just the kind of punk that would gravitate towards this UFC style B.S.

It was overkill to the point of showing off. Very poor taste. Maybe once the other one drops he'll be more secure.

Finally, and this is just a personal note. I avoid using chokes myself.

Choking can be considered "deadly force" at times legally. Plus in a fight I teach "if it feels like deadly force, it is." If I were being choked I would treat it as such (off come the gloves). Therefore, I have to assume that my opponent would do the same.

Master C. C. Pieschala

Bob Patterson said...

DJ is right. In fact, from a corrections perspective inmates file grievances and sue ALL THE TIME.

The reality is that less than lethal to lethal techniques can open you up to being sued; even if you followed protocol and have a witness.

Good cops and corrections officers have a crappy job and though I respect the good ones, I'm glad I work in la-la land. (aka the university)

Sa Bum Nim Pieschala said...

DR -
You da man! Any news from Floyd?
He's been quite lately ...

Dojo Rat said...

Hey man, Floyd at Dante has been laying low, I hope he's getting his movie in production!

chancellorlaw said...

This video reminds me of one I watched in the 80's when I was trained as a police pressure point tactics instructor. In that video an off duty strikes a pimp in the side of the neck with his forearm. One shot, down he goes. Back then I though it was a great technique and practiced it hard. I am a martial artist with over 30 year practice. I was a police officer for many years too. Now I am an attorney. I focus my a good part of my practice sueing people that do things like this. I am also happy to defend a good cop and to give lectures, liability seminars, and other consulting regarding this type of situation. Feel free to review my background at www.chancellorlaw.com and drop me a line if your school/department or other institution could use my services. JC

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