Monday, July 23, 2007

Still More UFC Pinhead Babble

Now this is some serious Bad-Ass joint-locking action. If only other Korean styles were this agressive! I am going to look into these guys further, but in the mean time here's another UFC pinhead typing from his mother's basement:
(Re: One of our joint-lock flows Posted on YouTube

Johnf85 (1 day ago)
hey i have a question, how come they dont use this in the ufc? hahahahahaha

My response:
UFC does use joint lock flows. You must be new to this.

Johnf85 (4 hours ago)
haha no, and ufc does not have worthless akido name one match that has this crap

(Dojo Rat):
This kind of attitude makes me realize that there is a dark and ignorant side of UFC that that is more like teen-age Pro Wrestling fans. I am sure it's not just me that thinks this. Kids look at these guys and probably don't realize that most of them go through intensive Traditional Martial Arts training when they are young, and then achieve the MMA fighting level.
Take it for what it is, the UFC is here to stay. It has brought a dose of reality to our fighting systems, but like every fight sport it degrades and waters down street self-defense because there are safety rules and referee's, not to mention the danger of relying on groundfighting among people who could put the boot to you.
I have a feeling we will be posting on this for a while...


Steve said...

I just try to remember that there's no IQ test for posting a remark on YouTube.

Hand2Hand said...



I agree 200 percent with what you wrote. I think UFC deserves a lot of credit for forcing martial artists to re-examine their training.

On the other hand, there is no perfect system that accounts for every possible situation, and that includes MMA sport training.

And Steve, I got a TESTIFY BROTHER! for you, too.

One last thing to DR - Sorry I didn't respond sooner to your request for a post about Bowie knife training.

You flatter and honor me and I'd love to write it. But I just have too many personal and professional projects going on in my life, to say nothing of being a new father to a six-year-old Ukrainian boy. Parenthood takes a lot out of a guy.

Chris said...

That is Hap Ki Do. I can tell by the technique. Also I read it off the back of their uniforms (doh!).

Again, as I said a while back before Tae Kwon Do went sport Hap Ki Do was taught a lot as a part of the class. Simply because many of the older Master's of the time knew both.

Apparently Hap Ki Do is pretty good because in the early days of Korean arts coming to the U.S. HKD was taught to special forces for Vietnam.

Go to Wikipedia and look up the exploits of the Korean Marines in Vietnam and how NVA and VC a like were terrified of them.

My favorite is how they cleared villages of "insurgents" we should take a page from their book.

Personally I admire their fighting spirit and actually laughed during Rodney King riots because the Koreans had AK-47's (funny only because "it figures")

The Ai Ki you saw is merely "Hap Ki" in Japanese. Or they could be referencing the roots in Daito-ryu (I didn't watch the whole thing and it was on mute). I studied Daito-ryu while stationed in Okinawa.

And I still think the UFC is over rated.

1. Along the lines Count Dante, it's not too ultimate, nobody died.

2. Who picked the fighters? A great many who lied about their training.

3. Who matched up the fighters?

4. Why was time allotted in UFC one for the big Gracie lovefest and the family award. (UFC 1)

5. Fish Hooking, Small Joint Manipulation, Eye gouging, ear drum smashing, groin attacks, knees, elbows, basically all my best stuff :)

I've run tournaments before. I will not use words like "cheat" or "fixed" BUT if it is my tournament it's easy to "stack the deck".

Wouldn't it be tempting if you were going to stake the reputation of your family's teaching live on Pay per view. I'm not sawing they did it, but I can see the temptation.

As I stated before, Ji Do Kwan (my kwan) states "promotion through competition. Minimum 3 trophies from other tournaments to even be considered for a belt test. This was common practice in most "hard" martial arts in the old days.

Currently the UFC and MMA has the same problems as sport Tae Kwon Do. And in a word it is "PROFIT".

I still maintain that the UFC as earned place in martial arts.

However I always think back to the lines of Count Dante.

Would it work in a bar? or a gravel alley? prison? multiple people? weapons? or the Count's words "a phone booth"? I think not.

Those curious, my instructor was a student of his. I've also being trying to help Floyd where I can (I really don't know how much help I was).

Just a repeat of my usual 2 cents.
Not trying to start an argument but to provoke some non "Black Belt Magazine" thought.

Cheers from Chicago,
Master C.C. Pieschala

Dojo Rat said...

Welcome Master C.C.P.,
Thanks for helping Floyd with Dante information, I tip a beer to you!
I too was trained in a Ji Do Kwon system, in Portland by Master Tae Hong Choi, through Second Dan and then I switched to Kenpo and finally landed in the internal arts as I got older.
I did recognize the art as Hapkido, and Master Choi did train soldiers in Vietnam also.
You are right about the L.A. Riots, I remember seeing the Koreans on the rooftops of the 7-11's and gas stations protecting their property with rifle fire. I have never seen a better example of the need for the second amendment and the right to bear arms than that. Their shops were the only ones that didn't get burned.
Re: UFC-- I precieve a "thug mentality" emerging, not in the fighters but the fans. People adapting the skill sets of martial arts without the dicipline or moral values we were schooled in.
Thanks for contributing, D.R.

Hand2Hand said...

DR wrote:

"You are right about the L.A.
Riots, I remember seeing the Koreans on the rooftops of the 7-11's and gas stations protecting their property with rifle fire. I have never seen a better example of the need for the second amendment and the right to bear arms than that. Their shops were the only ones that didn't get burned."

H2H responds:


I fully support the 2nd Amendment as much as I support the rest of our great Constitution.

It makes no sense to me for any martial artist to support gun control. If you look at history, EVERY culture that restricts or bans the ownership of weapons by the common people will also criminalize the practice of martial arts by the common people.

As far as self defense goes, I'm always amazed at those boneheads who always say to me "Hey, you know kerotty, what do you need a gun for?"

These morons must have watched "The Matrix" and thought it was a documentary. Contrary to what Keanu Reeves did, in real life you can't take a few lessons and instantly dodge bullets.

I'm a nice guy, but if someone's breaking into my house in the middle of the night, I'm going to forget my usual Christian love and charity and see how fast I can empty a magazine into his butt.

Chris said...

Cheers right back!

I met Floyd a while back and offered some of what I knew which was primarily third hand.

He was just getting going at the time so I was guarded with what I said. But now he's the one with the good stuff.

So I try to shoot him a email when I remember something interesting.

I figured it was only a matter of time before Ashida and Fall River did some thing stupid, if you read his blogs. If there is one thing about the BDFS is they are predictable. And I like to steer clear of the whole thing.

I'm originally from north west Indiana so I know how Dante Inc worked from that side. I offered some names and personalities on that end to help give him an idea how that piece of it worked. And pieces continue to work. Probably out of scope for what he wanted, but who knows.

Truthfully, those were my Instructor's stories and I only knew some of the second generation guys.

One particular jerk I see on the Discovery channel sometimes who crashed my Black Belt test and to this day the sight of him makes my blood boil. But no point in stirring it up.

My instructor got out of that whole scene after Dante's death. It really went nuts at the end, with no real leader.

How Aguillar came in to control is beyond me. My instructor's exact words were, "last I heard they were on the outs". And that had to have been right about the time Dante died.

I got to see Dante's military records I helped Floyd translate some jargon (I'm an ex-GI). As of yet I don't think Floyd has the one from the Army, I gave my theory as to why that is and explained where to look in the Uniform Code of Military Justice to check.

But Floyd's the guy with the answers. He's doing a good job and has gotten farther than I expected.

Dante's group was kinda the Hotel California of groups (check in anytime you like but you can never leave ...).

So when my instructor left he promptly hooked up with the Ji Do Kwan guys who were coming to Chicago. I did not Dante's group NEVER crossed that bunch and I know the Koreans never paid a Chicago "street tax" (they probably would have loved to have been asked though :) )

And I'm sure you know with your back ground that the Korean artists that came here from 1960-1975 were a different breed.

They'd fight over just the name TKD never mind which Kwan. It was that Korean nationalism.

I knew at least one Master who thought it was funny to go to a rival school and say, "You have a bad school you should close it. I come back tomorrow." (God help them if they advertised Ninja anything) This was usually after a trip to Rockford and ... well I'm going to shut up now.

I wouldn't mind sharing stories but I never "name drop". And it's hard to tell a (good) story without dropping a name. And I don't know who is reading this stuff.

I'll just leave it as I'm out with my reputation intact, white, and a 4th degree with the title of Master. That should say enough.

Back to Dante.
I think one of the main characters in all of this is the City itself. You should check out Bob Cooley's book he talks about the Dante I heard about. Bob Cooley is a jag and the book is a bit of an ego trip, but it will definitely give you a feel for those times.

These keyboard tough guys out there should learn some respect.

Not everybody is a book reader and much of what people think is good today was extremely sloppy 20 years ago.

Best Wishes.
Master C.C. Pieschala

Dojo Rat said...

Master C.C.P.
Great Dante stories...
And let me guess; Indiana?... hmmm... George Dillman?

I am not familiar with Bob Cooley's book, but I'll try to Google it, Thanks much,

Dave said...

Yes, there is a thug-like movement behind the UFC fanbase. I call it the "UFC effect." This is when these clowns get the knowledge of certain MA techniques like double leg takedowns and ground and pound, and then lose what few inhibitions they might have had about using them on other people.

Look on youtube and you'll see plenty of examples of these techniques out in the streets.

I'm convinced that for all the good the UFC has done, the negatives may be even greater.

As martial artists, we need to keep in mind that the chances we will run into this stuff have greatly increased since the UFC started. Ignorance of grappling and basic MMA moves could be deadly for martial artists on the streets.

Formosa Neijia

Dojo Rat said...

Dave, I couldn't agree with you more.

Hand2Hand said...

One thing hit me yesterday while driving home about the UFC Pinheads.

C.W. Nicol predicted the whole thing in his book, "Moving Zen." He said that as martial arts become more popular as sports, that we'll see the rise of "Armchair Blackbelts" who may not have training, but they'll sit back and critique the latest match they saw on TV.

99.9 percent of these guys who make remarks about what would and wouldn't work in UFC at just that - Armchair Black Belts.

They're no different than Monday morning quarterbacks or any other sports fans arguing about which players or teams are the best.

As far as the thug mentality, the same could be said of any previous martial arts fad. Look at some of the martial art booms of the 1970's and 80's. I remember there were lots of wannabe guys claiming to have had training while they try out moves they saw on some TV show or movie.

To me, this whole UFC movement, while here to stay, will eventually move to the background while another martial arts fad moves to the fore.

When that happens, schoolyard tough guys will have a whole new way to preen, posture and otherwise display their "skills."

Chris said...

Honestly it's not Dillman, he usually lingers in the Fort Wayne area.

I'm less than a fan of his, because in my opinion, he kinda screwed the Okinawans, a people I came to respect.

My instructor liked him, he definitely knows a thing or two he's just a little nutty with his KI theories.

Drop me an email and I'll give you the names and even the organization.

This guy was somehow very connected to something. I know calls went to Korea went out on him and the answer was "not to be touched". I have no clue why, I'd love to kick him around a bit.

Cooley's book is called "When Corruption Was King" its about when Chicago's first ward ran much more than the first ward.

If you are watching a lot of this "Family Secrets" trial is on that.

If you remember the movie Casino one of the guys who beat Joe Pesci's character to death is on trial.

It's the main news here and all the rats are coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if Cooley himself came out of the witness protection program on this one.

But the book really gives you a feel for Chicago at the time like the Playboy Mansion, Chinatown, Rush Street (where Dante had a school). So it put a lot of the stories I know in perspective.

Like stories I heard about fighting with straight razors and hypo's in China town and "You'll wind up in a dumpster somewhere. And everybody's English will get really bad." Cooley explains a bit on that and why the cops don't hang out there much.

I think if you order off of (or something like that) and suck up a little you could get Cooley to sign it. The guy has a HUGE ego :).

Dojo Rat said...

I like your "armchair quarterback" analogy. Ever seen in a sports bar how some of the most crazed and fanatic screaming sports fans are guys who chainsmoke cigarettes, are 60 pounds overweight and drink more than a Dojo Rat?

Chris: Thanks, I read Cooley's bio on a google search, that mob shit is pretty scarey...