Thursday, October 25, 2007

A Real Test For Kicking Skills

Jail Fight

Now, most of us hope not to be caught in this situation, (at least not again..) but let's say what if...
How do you defend yourself until the guard comes in to seperate you from the attackers?
Do you:
1. Put your back to the corner so you only defend your front side?, or-
2. Agressively take the fight to the crowd?
What weapons do you have?
1. Kicking (as shown)
2. Knee strikes
3. Shoulder/hip slams
4. Head-butts
5. Sweeps (more difficult with handcuffs)
6. Other?
--My favorite kicks are knee level, they can do serious damage. Knee strikes to the gallbladder meridian on the outside of the thigh can drop a guy.
--It seems like getting close will neutralize the kicks coming in, bringing you into hip/shoulder/knee and head-butt range.
--You'd better hope the guard comes in, 'cause you can't fight these odds forever...

(edit.) Note that "The Suit" says "in this state if you kick with a covered foot, it's a deadly weapon"...


Scott said...

That would suck.
I would probably charge along the wall so that for a moment I would be in between the wall and just one attacker. I would be stamping all the way, scraping both up and down the lower legs and smashing the feet, using my body and upper legs to trip.
I once saw video of a Chinese guy who spent ten years training in jail in handcuffs, great kicking and stamping.

Charles James said...

What would I do in this situation, I would not get locked up to begin with :-)

Hand2Hand said...

Hey DR,

You forgot biting. Don't knock it! An adult human has greater PSI in his bite than a pit bull terrier.

I remember I had an argument with my training partner. A student of ours bit another guy and took a chunk out of the other guy's ribs to escape from a headlock.

My partner, Moe, criticized him saying that he thought biting was "fighting dirty."

I reminded Moe that outside of the ring, there is no right or wrong, no winning or losing, only surviving. I say, if a technique keeps you from being mugged, raped or killed, then use it!

My partner disagreed, so I simply told him, "Moe, I hope you and I never disagree about something so much that we have to fight over it. But if we do, here's some advice - keep your hands and feet away from my mouth."

That said, I like Scott's comments about handcuffs. I seem to remember there was a story about a xingyiquan master who was imprisoned and had to practice while wearing shackles. But the added weight gave him strength, it taught him to protect his centerline better and he developed great short power from learning to fight with cuffs.

Dojo Rat said...

One of my training partners got out of a choke hold by biting a guy on the forearm about 15 years ago. The guy he bit had to go into intensive care with his arm swollen up with infection, in about ONE DAY! The human bite is nasty.
I also remember the story about the xing-yi master training in prison with leg irons and hand cuffs. He developed a powerful style, but his hands were cuffed in front I believe.
And Scott; stomping is great, I considered it low kicking.
The thing about a kicking leg with a shoe being a deadly weapon is a little excess I think.

Sa Bum Nim Pieschala said...

That looked like that kids game where you had to hop on one foot and knock each other down ;-)

First observation, he threw the first one, maybe he needed to get stomped?

I probably would have been able to handle that without fighting. Especially if I kept my cool and didn't kick the guy first.

But while he was smack talking I would have made it a point to memorize faces.

In jail all you have is time, I'd bide mine nurture a good old fashioned sociopathic grudge and catch them at a time of my choosing.

Oh and my take on foot stomping, good diversion before going for your real strike (eyes, ears, throat or just somewhere "up high") BUT you gotta combine them with a shins crapes. Let the shin guide your foot to the target ;-)

Plus your hips will be close to his a good hard hip twist hitting his hips below his center of gravity. You may get lucky and knock him over.

If the force is with you, and this happens the situation can be more easily diffused. Nobody wants to be on the ground like that (getting kicked by the pack, you bet they all didn't know each other just the first 2). Plus you just took the focus off of yourself.

Just babbling, I need to know more about the situation before saying THIS is what I'd do.

Adil said...

Me, being a monkey armed flexible JAMF, I would just step over my cuffed arms so my arms are no longer behind my back, and have some fun with those unarmed muppets.

JoseFreitas said...

The Xingyi guy (Li Luo Neng or Guo Yun Shen, can't remember right now) didn't have his arms shackled. He had one of those stone balls tied to his feet with a chain. It is said that he could jump step a full five feet forward even with that, and could kill a man with one of his straight punches to the stomach. He also specialized in San Ti (standing training) in his little cell, so I think it was Guo, because he became Wang Xiang Zai's teacher (the founder of YiQuan).

There's a bunch of nasty close range kicks in Bagua, including the hopping downward stomping kick, the scraping kick (hits the knee, you use your opponent's shin to regain control of your balance while scarping his skin as you go downward), lots of leg/ankle locking stuff that can be really destructive, short stop kicks using the back heel or the instep to stop an opponents kick or an opponent's stepping forward etc... Unfortunately it seems few people train this nowadays (me, only a little and only in forms, not the two man stepping drills) except for Kuntao people.

There's also a lot to be said for short range hits, my teacher Sifu McNeil could slam a heavy bag at zero inches (ie starting at contact) with his hips, butt or shoulders, it was awesome. He could send people flying away given 2-3inches of space.

Rick Fryer said...

If somehow found in that situation; I'm thinking try to time your counter kicks so that you hit the base leg of an attacker as he's attempting to kick at you. It might send him down.

If your lucky/good enough to take out one or two of them that way, then you can try to finish the other with ear bites (a la Hand2Hand - Good Idea!) and head-butts.

Don't knock the ear-bites. A 'friend' took a nibble on the top of my ear during some rather ruff practice this weekend... and it still hurts! (I'm currently planning my revenge! ...Just you wait Mike!)

Anyway, thanks for the post, good stuff to think about.